COME AT ME WITH ALL THE FF META THREAD.

[zen_monk]

 I desire friends...

I am inspired by Moogle University! 

Disclaimer: I am in general more excited by the FF ladies and I'm picky over which boy is my homeboy, but I am a "CRITICAL THINKING PERSON WITH A PROPENSITY TO PHILOSOPHIZE IN ORDER TO REALIZE MY GOAL IN LIFE." 

As a philosophy major *3*

Comments

[sathari]

That's cool about Cecil being fostered, and it occurs to me that maybe, the king's name is, like, "Odin Harvey, King Baron", like how sometimes nobility will have the last name but also the name of what they are the lord/ruler of? And I can't remember whether I read it in fic or something in canon that Golbez's "true" name is Theodor(e) Harvey?

Oh, man, Kain in a redwood forest, I am now stanning for that, so hard! That is just the most beautiful idea I have heard for him. Just FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.

I've ended up thinking a lot about sexual mores and customs in FFIV... well, I think for a lot of reasons, one of which is simply that I love thinking about that stuff! But also and in this case because there are the medieval trappings right alongside Rosa visiting Cecil's bedroom dressed in tinsel and glitter and a pretty smile, you know? And then the OT3 begs that question a little, like how the three of them would think about it, and since my basic premise with them is "they all love and want each other equally at base" then I get into reasons that they would have had for not exploring that. And also, quite to the point, the first fic I started writing in this fandom involved questions around magical fertility control (in both directions, preventing AND encouraging conception) and once I started thinking about that, well.

And, oh, yeah, if you scratch social ideas of right and wrong, what you find underneath is "what benefits certain groups that enjoy certain powers as a result". Since the first thing I started thinking about with that was magical fertility control, that goes right to your point about how power and wealth are transferred. My reasoning went something like, "Hmm, fertility control is kind of medical/body-centered, it's going to be white magic--- oh, yeah, that means that mages, and white mages in particular, don't HAVE to worry about unauthorized progeny/not enough authorized progeny, and probably ditto risks of disease, so they are going to be chill about the whole business. But they are also healers, so hurting others is right out if only because it makes more work for the white mages!" (Something else that also showed up in the same fic was a magical equivalent of "bloodline testing"--- not just paternity, but any relationship--- where a white mage can tell that people are related to each other if s/he has to cast healing magic on them, because healing magic gets into the body, and the stronger the magic the easier it is to tell. So an Arise on two people is a near-foolproof way to tell if they're related.)

Something else about Mysidia vs. Baron that shifts the nature of the power structure is that... I have Mysidia in my head as... maybe not all the way to a straight-up meritocracy, but there's not direct inheritance of land/titles/etc. There IS a certain extent to which magical abilities are inherited, but since there's white magic to control fertility (works on both dudes and ladies, the boys can have their "little swimmers" stopped or encourage spermatogenesis, just as much as ladies can either induce or prevent ovulation) the social customs surrounding it don't involve as much control over non-procreative sex.

Okay, now I'm totally into the land of "zen_monk makes me have ALL THE THOUGHTS YAY" because I'm back on that business of the world before and after the Lunarians, and Kluya coming down and teaching magic... I am more and more going with the idea that... if Kluya wasn't living there when he actually had Theo and Cecil, he certainly DID live in Mysidia for a long time... maybe he lived in Mysidia, then moved to Baron, and that's when he met Cecilia and the king threw her out for consorting with an alien?

And part of the problem there was Kluya DID bring magic, and maybe Mysidia didn't have much in the way of an hereditary nobility, like what Mysidia is, how it started out, was maybe, like, loosely connected groups of... whatever, people just living out there, or Kluya started teaching magic to a few select people and then more and more came to learn from him and the town grew up around him? So there wasn't that power structure of the nobility in place to begin with, so their actual culture grew up on different premises: there's magical power, which is purely merit-based and not something you can really fuck with (spells seem to happen naturally as one gains experience, and Cecil doesn't appear to have studied white magic before he became a paladin, ditto Kain in TAY, so I'm thinking that while study can help you gain a better grasp of magic, it's a very big risk to assume that you can prevent someone's magical development by denying them knowledge, and at least if you let them learn spells, you'll have a better idea of what it is they know. But also that the "canonical" or standard magic DOES make it somewhat easier to learn.). And then there's social power... and, man, I'm almost wanting to think of Kluya as being, like, the Carl Rogers of FFIV, just this warmhearted person who is all about positive regard and empathy, and Mysidia got infused with that in their approach to social power, that the Elder may not be the most powerful magically, but is the person who can most empathetically and positively guide the town (in Kluya's name amen).

And then, across the "big pond", you have Baron. And Baron is a traditional monarchy, with nobles and bloodlines to protect for the sake of transfer of wealth and power. And then in comes Kluya with his big heart and his magic and OH SHIT. Which may have to do with the King throwing Cecilia out because of taking up with Kluya, if he was... well, kind of doing the Jesus thing and preaching a form of lovingkindness that was threatening to those power structures and the ones who benefitted from them, especially what with the bringing magic along to boot, and magical power doesn't necessarily flow in the same bloodlines as nobility, so suddenly you've got commoners who can cast a fucking Flare on a nobleman. And then (oh, man, I'm eating up the Jesus analogy) so Kluya gets sent on his merry way with Cecilia (possibly to toddle off to Mist) and Baron absorbs the mages into the power structure (like the Holy Roman Empire, that alliance between Christianity and the crown that... you know... didn't really stay with the "lovingkindness" part of Jesus' teachings too well.)

And those towns that are cut off--- I wonder if they have magic at all, some of them? Or maybe the potential is there and some people, like Palom and Porom with their twincast, and Rosa's little "wild talent" of Pray, can do some magic, but not in the same formalized structure? And then you have Fabul and Eblan and maybe they have a higher percentage of people to begin with who have some magical ability, and then, of course, it's an advantage, those who have it become desirable mates, and it gets "bred for". And I would think that ninja are different socially from black mages if only because of the isolation between Eblan and like everyone else. They have that warrior culture alongside the magic, and the magic isn't as powerful. (I am being lazy and shorthanding like ALL MY META ABOUT FABUL AND EBLAN from this post.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF Anna. Anna fucking dying, your explanation makes a hella lot of sense, because fffffffffffffff that nonsense. (I think I rambled somewhere else about my explanation being that Golbez had developed some sort of no-recourse killing weapon, that ended up being non-replicable, and was meant for Edward and his family, but Anna took Edward's share of it.)

Troia and the doctors. I am not sure what is up with that since the Epopts can all do white magic. Cultural difference in attitude toward magic? And I need to wander off and think about how Kluya as purveyor of magic fits into that. Or maybe they, kind of like Fabul and Eblan, evolved their own form of magic, which like Fabul's is primarily white, and theirs is close enough to Kluya's form of white magic? Or maybe Kluya came down in the Lunar Whale and started in Troia, with the "royalty" perhaps, and then he saw which way the wind was blowing, how the Epopts kept power for themselves--- and there's that whole thing about "women being kinder and gentler" so maybe men aren't even allowed to learn magic there? And they wouldn't allow black magic at all? (Maybe Kluya taught magic, the women used their newfound power to sort out a problem of abusive husbands/fathers, and then they turned around and went too far with it?) So Kluya said "FFFF, can't do this in a place with an established power structure, they'll just hoard it," and wandered off to what eventually became Mysidia. And maybe he wanted a second try at that when he came to Baron, or maybe Cecilia convinced him to try when he came through? (And, okay, I want to fit that with my four-fiends meta and how the first Epopts were Rubicante's daughters.)

[zen_monk]

Keep in mind that just because we see towns being just a collection of buildings, they're not all that can be made up a society. Just because we don't see transportation or domesticated animals or that the entirety of an area is only as big as how the player travels, doesn't mean that it's all there is. Towns in islands that were hitherto unavailable unless by airship doesn't mean that we can't just think that they don't have ships to travel around or some sort of transportation.

The thing is about white magic is that they're meant to heal and progress the body. Black magic is what is done to the body. That's why they have petrify and poison. I guess if slow is cast, it might do something internally, but I doubt it; Slow is meant to restrict movements, so it's more like holding somebody back, not the more invasive process that black magic does. If anything, I'm more willing to believe that white magic rejuvenates fertility or to make it a little bit easier, but I don't think it would speed up or slow down eggs or sperm. That to me speaks more of black magic, or maybe even another discipline. This game happened before there were classes like red mages and blue mages around, like in FFV and I guess also in the old FFIII? I think it's telling that there isn't blue magic or red magic or that there hasn't been geomancers. To me, even if some of their abilities can pushed onto the white and black magic spectrum isn't sufficient for me to think that both of those classes pull double duty, and that the lack of the other disciplines that are also a staple in other FF's means that other people make up for those classes in other ways, some of which may not be magic-related.

I feel ya on the Fabul and Eblan headcanoning, but a lot of the explanations for those two countries can be easily accepted if you just think of those two as Asian countries. The monks in Fabul are basically shaolin monks and if you one has any understanding of how natural and physical energies are interpreted in Chinese mythology, then what the monks in Fabul do don't need to have more association to black or white magic. For example: should we think of Ursula's Chakra as another form of "cure" or is it just another way of healing? Same thing for Eblan. They are even classified as "ninja" and knowing what kind of mythos ninjas have in Japan would be a handy resource for how we understand Eblan. And to me, what Fabul and Eblan did shouldn't be classified as magic; it means they both found a way to have an outlet for channeling their own spiritual powers that is different from black and white magic. Summoner magic is also something that I think is a field of its own and would have a different understanding compared to B&W magic. These aren't something you get "bred" for; they are a part of the overall culture if one is willing to learn. Especially when magic is defined by one's spirit stats. How the hell you get "spirit" as a biological attribute? That's like saying one is born with a greater soul. One is just more adept as they live their lives.

Though, I might as well just say that trying to compare Asian-oriented abilities to the European based B&W magic is an actual racial issue to me, so I hope to not have to justify what I just wrote.

I thought that the whole Kluya mythos was that he lived a very long time on the Blue planet, at some point in his longevity he got people to not like him anymore, and so anyone who's associated with him is politically anathema, and that in that point of longevity on the blue planet and just plopping magic there for however long ago that was (I headcanon that as centuries), he hitched up with Cecilia and then had children. And at that point, he was at that Lunarian age where his longevity is at an end, but good thing he actually procreated at that time.

Because if the world is shaped around a magic culture, it doesn't make sense for it to have happened super recently like just before Cecil was born. I also don't think that what's in Mysidia is like a church; it's a prayer temple. It's at the top of a thing that looks like an Aztec or some sort of pyramid, and since people apparently see mystical power in the stars and the moon (especially the moon), it reads more to me like pagan religions or traditions without the whole organized institution thing. I don't see institutionalized religion in other kingdoms so it stands more reason to me that observance of higher authority isn't a factor in FFIV world.

Hmm, before this I never really thought about contraception in FF world, other than the obvious. If anything, white magic can get rid of venereal disease but not pregnancy. What if white magic interprets that as "life" and would just keep things flowing along because white magic rejuvenates all life within you, including your cells. I think midwifery is just its own thing, like having surgeons resetting your bones by breaking them. I doubt white magic means suddenly casting upon broken bones means you're fully healed of them. You'd be all lumpy.

[sathari]

...if there are ships somewhere in that game or any of them that MY PARTY CANNOT USE, then RAWR. Ahem, though, seriously, I think there's definitely room for interpretation about how much interaction there is among the different geographical locations. (On the one hand, you've got pretty consistent items lists and prices across towns, for example, but on the other, ARMOR AND WEAPONS. So using trade as a measure of the interaction still leaves it up in the air. And the economics of that are interesting, what's available at what store and the fact that the prices are consistent. Also, I think it was Rina who made the point in one of her M_U posts that there doesn't seem to be a lot of diplomatic interaction among the kingdoms, they seem to be out of touch with each other? So, um... room for writers to roll how they like with it?)

Writing-wise, I had gone with the idea that, just as with your point that there ought to be whole parts of those towns we don't see, there are also spells that don't present themselves in-game (because Squeenix surely wouldn't have gotten contraception spells past Nintendo's censorship, for one thing, though they did pull off Cecil's dwarf porn, and there wouldn't be any call for anyone to be using fertility treatments while trying to save the world). But now that I think about it, some kind of narrow-focused Hold on the testes or the ovaries WOULD actually make kind of awesome birth control. And then a Haste, again targeted, to speed up ovulation cycles or spermatogenesis.... I'm actually liking this.

...hmm, I think we're actually both trying to do the same thing from opposite directions with our approaches to the cultural differences in magic systems? Also I feel like I am getting close to... IDK, talking smack about something that's central to your identity or personal beliefs for the sake of a discussion about video games? And if I am doing that, please tell me and I'll stop that shit.

Okay. Going ahead, because the thing is that the way I'm thinking about the magic systems across groups has a lot to do with me trying not to show my ass in how I think about them. Because for me, if I personally were to say that Fabul and Eblan have these entirely different magical systems... it would be really close to othering them, like, "Oooh, they have ~mystical Asian powers~ that the roundeyes can't know of that are something inherently ~other~." (Which is not my saying that anyone else who does that is doing so, but that's what that approach would lend itself to for me, especially in terms of trying to write those characters.) Rather than looking at how Edge's Ninjutsu also uses MP and has spells that are similar but not identical to the black ones, and then looking at how, IIRC, Yang doesn't have MP but has amazing strength, and going, "The broad general power or capacity is common to all humans in this world (but different individuals have different levels of native talent) and their cultures change how they express and develop those powers." So I think we're both trying to avoid something ugly with the cross-cultural piece and we think about it differently?

As far as the stats and biology go... okay, point one, I could probably go on a complete rant about the stat names and/or translations. Because, FUCK, intelligence IS NOT JUST GOOD FOR BLACK MAGIC. I mean, actual intelligence as a construct, this is something that Kain and Cecil would be using to figure out troop deployments and court politics and tactics and strategy, it's something that would be a part of learning black OR white spells and how to use them, and, heck, probably some of Edward's musical ability though not all by any means, it... just FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. JUST NO. For me, that is a much worse translation issue than, like, "spoony bard" or something. So there is some fail for me to begin with in that whole concept. Which, okay, does not answer the piece about Spirit, but for that one... I think about how there are people like, say, Albert Schweitzer who at the age of six refused to wear nicer clothing than his poorer classmates, despite his parents wanting him to? When most kids that age won't even share their toys? (There are also Eastern traditions with very young high-level spiritual leaders, but I tread more lightly on that ground since I don't know it as well.) So as far as we're able to track a "spirit" stat IRL, there's some indication of innate individual differences in initial capacity that are not the result of maturation. And the game echoes this because Palom AND Porom are prodigies, so she obviously was born with some kind of talent for white magic.

On your Kluya meta? TOTAL AGREEMENT. Goes perfectly with how I think of him, nothing to add there!

That prayer temple thing... yeah. And Rosa's ability is called "Pray" (which I think is another thing there, Rosa has Pray and Ursula has Chakra, it's the way that their cultural lived experience informs and shapes an ability that can show up in humans of the Blue Planet generally.) And Kluya can talk to Cecil through the Chamber of Ordeals, and they use the prayer tower to access the Lunar Whale... so I am now thinking that the concept of "prayer" is more of the focusing of one's energies on a deliberate end? And... possibly something to do with the Lunarian connection, because: Kluya in the Chamber of Ordeals and prayer being used to raise the Lunar Whale.

[zen_monk]

What are you talking about with Eblan and Fabul being othered? Them having a clear distinction as different cultures from the rest of the likes of Baron and Mysidia and Troia is not the same as "othering" them. They are meant to be allusions towards Asian cultures, specifically Chinese and Japanese. You can even see them in their fighting styles, where Yang's abilities are meant to be alluded to kung fu and that Eblan's ninjitsu is already a cultural distinction from the rest. I don't even understand why you want to make it as though they are withholding their abilities from everyone else or that they call everyone "round-eyes" cuz seriously what the hell are you trying to say? I'm just saying that these two nations have direct Asian parallels so the understandings of their physical abilities would reference them. Also, just because Edge draws from MP doesn't mean that it negates what I'm trying to say about ninjitsu being distinct from Black magic; I'm saying that how he draws black-magic like abilities is different in form from Black Mages but that the principle of drawing from MP is the same.

Especially when Ninjitsu abilities are named after occurrences that happen in the world, and not like "Fire -> Fira -> Firaga" and Edge has something like "Blaze."

Me pointing out that Eblan and Fabul are culturally distinct from the rest of the nations because they are actual allusions to real world cultures is not me "othering" them. Not recognizing them as such is ERASURE and that is a RACIST action. Especially when you call them the "Mystical Asian Powers" when they are in fact actual cultural practices and beliefs. And especially when Square Enix is a Japanese company, and if they want to include Ninja magic, they could, because Kung Fu powers and Ninja Magic is part of their cultural understanding and one which they have more right to include than some other companies that wants to use racist stereotypes.

If you really don't know what I'm talking about with Eblan and Fabul, then by all means I'll point it out to you, because certainly the DS version of the game is putting a bit more emphasis that Fabul is meant as an allusion to Chinese culture and Eblan is basically wanting something identifiably Japanese for their home audience.

[sathari]

...oh man, oh man, oh man, I think... I somehow managed to convey to you EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE of what I meant? Shit. I... apologize profusely.

I do totally see that Eblan and Fabul are callbacks to Japanese culture and Chinese culture! But if I, me personally with how I see magic in that world as being a biological capacity shared by human beings in individually different amounts and expressed differently across cultures (like pretty much all traits and abilities), were to say that Eblanese magic and Fabulian abilities were something inherently specific to Eblanese and Fabulians, that somebody from another race couldn't learn--- that Cecil, if he'd been found by Edge's parents and raised Eblanese, wouldn't be able to learn ninjitsu, for example, because he's not Eblanese by birth--- I would be othering them, saying that they have these profound biological differences in their abilities, which is what I meant by the self-mocking reference to "mystical Asian powers" and "roundeyes"--- that I would be saying that these are powers inherent to Fabulians (Chinese) or Eblanese (Japanese) at some biological level that makes them different from the Baronians, Mysidians, and Troians, like they're a separate species. Again, that's me, with how I see magic as an integrated biological ability, like the ability to fight; as I see it, if Yang had been raised in Baron, he'd use a sword, because that's how he would have trained his talents. And he'd probably be a damn good swordsman, because he has certain raw talents for combat. And Cecil would probably have made a damn fine monk if he'd been trained as that. If I treated Fabulian and Eblanese powers as different, I would be saying that that's not the case, that Cecil couldn't learn to be a monk nor Yang a swordsman/paladin.

And I am NOT saying that, I am not treating them as another species with abilities that don't intersect with other humans. What I'm saying instead is that the differences in the magic systems (and likewise in the real-world traditions on which they're based) are cultural and environmental, not biological or inherent; that the cultural differences affect how a set of abilities that all humans potentially have is expressed and understood and learned and developed.

[zen_monk]

Firstly, I'm serously side-eying why you think using "roundeyes" as some sort of slur that Asian people do is somehow acceptable, or something that actually exists just as how there's "mystical Asian powers' which is a media stereotype. I don't know where you get something like that from, but please don't do so in the future. Just a heads up: Asian people get round eyes, too. There's no equivalent for having some racist epitaph like "slanty-eyes" or whatever... because surprise, Asian people have a variety of eye shapes but white people historically likes to make distinctions to raise up their own status. It's been done to Irish and Italians, so this is more across the board historically.

Also, I don't believe in my post that somehow Ninja magic and whatever counts as magic in Fabul is somehow so inherently different from white and black magic that they're unteachable. These are not racialized notions- I'm saying that they are differently channeled. I also want to say that they might not be the same as magic, as Chakra isn't magic but would probably have similar principles to white magic. Chakra is from an actual religion (Hindu/Buddhist), and whatever Ninjitsu is, is I believe from a different way of channeling black-magic type abilities, but are obviously seen as something different due to the name of the attacks. But right now I'm starting to think that things like "Chakra" and "Ninjitsu" didn't originate from Kluya deciding to bring magic into the world, and that it was something that was developed within their nations but Kluya found a more direct methodology.

If someone like Cecil were to learn abilities in Fabul or whatever, he'd have to actually train and be encultured in their practices and rituals.

I also don't think that magic is so inherently biological that it means you have to be born with knowing magic. Unless you mean, that one has the capabilities just like having a brain means you're capable of thinking. Because Kluya "taught" magic. He didn't somehow bless them with magic, as though he gave it to them. He taught magic, as in it's empirically measured and that there's methods to go through. Whether someone is able to learn them goes into where they are learning it and whether they have the drive to.

Cecil gets a pass because he's more in tune with learning magic since he's Lunarian- that seems the closest to being biologically capable with magic. But people like Tellah aspired to learn both white and black magic, and it suggest that it's a hard thing to master because you're juggling disciplines, and not because he's somehow more biologically capable of learning both as opposed to all other mage types.

[sathari]

Oooh, I'm really sorry about the language and what it implied. I was trying to mock certain ugly, othering Western-white attitudes toward Eastern traditions (not asserting that "roundeyes" was a slur Asians use, but rather that it's something that white-Westerners use when asserting differences between themselves and Asians, which I've heard done) and instead I ended up expressing that attitude myself. I was so busy trying to be "cute" and clever in my self-deprecation that I ended up doing the opposite of what I meant to. And that media stereotype was exactly what I was trying to object to, and instead I came off as furthering it. Thank you for being patient with me.

I definitely think that Ninjitsu and Fabulian abilities had absolutely nothing to do with Kluya. And... I think we are both saying that "magic" (black/white, mostly if not entirely taught by Kluya), Fabulian abilities, and ninjitsu are different ways to channel the same or a similar power/ability? It differs based on cultural understanding of that power and how that power interacts with other human capacities/abilities. So you have the Eblanese who integrate these elemental effects with training in the use of blades and thrown weapons, then you have the Fabulians who mostly focus the power on the physical (except with some wild talents like Ursula's Chakra), and then you have Baronian/Mysidian/Troian casting of spells.

I also think individuals are born with differing levels of aptitude for magic (and for pretty much any other abilities I can think of, physical or mental). Some people put in the time and effort to develop their abilities, and someone with less natural talent can sometimes get a better result than someone with more talent who hasn't developed it. On the other hand, someone with the talent can get results with less effort, as witness Palom--- and he and his sister both show an inherent aptitude for magic; they need teaching, but they're able to do things that older mages can't. And not every six-year-old could do what they do, even with training. And then there's the question of interest/inclination: Palom and Leonora's arc in TAY and the discussions there are a good example, because there's natural magical potential and then there's your personality and how you're inspired to develop that potential as well, whether you're interested enough to put in that effort, and what you're interested in.

[zen_monk]

I'mma go right here and say that "roundeyes" doesn't make as much sense as the good ol' "dumb-looking white people" because not only is having big round eyes is an actual beauty standard in places like China ad Japan, but also that it trivializes the very real harmful slur "chink" by saying that it has a dopey equivalent like "round eyes;" because like it or not, "Chink" or just descriptions of someone having slanted eyes is an Asian descriptor, and it'll never be associated with any other race outside of Asians. So, y'know, don't do it again; it's a bad idea in any form of real life.

So now that we're all in the nice and comfy plateau of clear and distinct perception...

Keeping in mind with the nature of magic and its connection to the stats "Intellect" and "Spirit" for effectiveness and defensive capabilities, the reason why I think magic is more like a taught method to go along with how much one person is able to have the mental capacity for magic, as well as the spiritual endurance to withstand against it. These are things to develop on during a real life progress, and it could be that one becomes more adept with magic with age but could be completely useless when they're younger, or that they'd have good magical abilities when they're younger because they probably catch on things quicker, but as they age the growth plateaus a bit.

I mean, look at Tellah. Him having the "recall" ability means that he did know his spells from before, but you know, he got old and probably had some mental handicap developed until revenge/Kluya's light made him remember things more clearly. The Tellah we know from in-game probably isn't the same Tellah in terms of ability if he were younger, who might be a lot stronger and probably didn't have an MP cap.

Or for that matter, decreasing stats.

[sathari]

Yes. I am seriously sorry for that word-choice fail and the baggage that came with it and will not do it again. And more generally, will be a lot more careful and a lot less impressed with my own ~*~cleverness~*~ and more concerned with clarity and consideration in how I go about attempting to articulate cross-cultural questions overall.

So. Interaction effects of learning/environment vs innate/biological capacity in magic talent development. We've got the twins, who are literal prodigies (IIRC, there's a psychometic/psychological definition of "prodigy" IRL which is "person performing at the level of an adult expert in a given domain before the age of ten" although I am not at present unearthing a citation for it, but that seems to fit the twins). We've got Rydia, who can do both white and black magic as a child as well as do some summoning, and Tellah takes one look at her and goes, "Oh, she's got a lot of potential". And there is something about summoners--- I got the impression from the game that unlike Kluya-trained-magic/ninjitsu/Fabulian-abilities, there is maybe something more overtly/purely inherited about the specific ability to learn to call an Eidolon from the Feymarch, regardless of your strength in magical-and-related-powers? That even if you're raised to it, you also have to be descended from a summoner/inherit that ability in order to call Eidolons. There's no mention of Rydia being able to train others to summon and IIRC there's an implication that she's the last summoner left, and that by killing off the existing summoners that would remove that capacity from the world? (The king of Baron/Cagnazzo doesn't try it with Mysidia, for example, he just has Cecil gank their crystal and run.) And summoners/Mist as such don't seem to be a clear callback to a real-world culture, either.

My perception of Tellah pretty much matches what you're saying, I think. There's a physical, biological decline for most people with advanced age, although the specific curves of which abilities decline in what ways in a person are partly biological (including genetic) and partly the result of environment and how they respond to their environment/what they do with it. And Recall is... like a game mechanic for, dude got older, he doesn't have the mental faculties he did, but he still has moments of his youthful acuity. And with Mt. Ordeals bringing him back his full repertoire of spells--- Mount Ordeals is an interesting thing in itself, just in terms of the overall mechanics of what can happen there: Cecil gains magic he didn't have before as well as a whole separate skillset/framework for using his abilities. And he just GAINS that, no enculturation or training or immersion in a new way of thinking, he just loses his old abilities and shifts into this new way of being like BLAM. The closest real-world example to that I can think of is the massive personality shifts that can sometimes happen with traumatic brain injury, (Phineas Gage is a pretty well-known example) but that is REALLY a stretch as a comparison, i.e. probably not that valid or useful.